The Covert Narcissist - Malignant Narcissism (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)
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The Covert / Stealth Narcissist
NOTE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is strongly characterized by complete self-centredness and outright denial that forms an invisible and virtually indestructable protective psychological barrier in order to defend the sufferer's true emotions.
What Is A Covert Narcissist?
Undoubtedly the most damaging form of Narcissistic Personality Disorder is covert narcissism. Covert narcissists can seem highly defensive and extremely hostile whilst masking beneath their facade an insecure sense of emotional vulnerability, a vulnerability they will do anything to prevent exposing. Although a covert narcissist generally possesses the same traits as an overt narcissist (need for attention, approval, adulation and grandiose fantasies) these are not commonly expressed in overt behaviour making covert or stealth narcissists much more difficult to recognize. Some people go decades before recognizing the narcissist in their life.
How Is Covert Narcissism Different?
In addition to the standard symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, the covert narcissist is also susceptible to stress and worry. They tend to operate inefficiently and their expectations remain unfulfilled. They repress awareness of their narcissistic traits due to inner conflict, deep down inside they find their fantasies embarassing and unnacceptable. Deep down inside they realize that their fantasies are self-centred and solicit goodness and power to one's self, to put one's self up on a pedestal above all others.
What Are The Symptoms Of Covert Narcissism?
Covert narcissists are too afraid to exhibit their accomplishments to others and commonly underestimate their own capabilities. Their overt behaviour usually projects an innocent angel-like 'good as gold' persona which builds them a credible reputation yet they fail to reach their true potential due to their own self-doubt. Some of them go on to become almost seemingly zombified and gradually lose all interests in their hobbies and decide to do nothing with their lives.
Why Is Covert Narcissism So Bad?
The most damaging aspect of covert narcissism is the controlling and manipulative behaviour they impose on people closest to them. If in a relationship this is usually solely their partner. They show a lack of empathy towards them and in many cases also towards their children if they have any. A female covert narcissist may have children with their partner in order to tie them down and to secure them as sources of narcissistic supply, they may even manipulate the children out of him by failing to use or purposely damaging contraception or even committing paternity fraud. A male covert narcissist may try to tie their partner down in the same way by purposely not using or damaging contraception and exploiting the emotional bond between mother and child.
What Makes Covert Narcissism So Damaging?
In a typical case the only person who realizes there is a problem is the person closest to the covert/stealth narcissist, who is forced to suffer covert narcissistic abuse (very subtle emotional blackmail, mental abuse and psychological manipulation). Narcissists twist literally every little detail back round onto the victim. This abuse is so well hidden within communication dynamics that the partner often doesn't pick up on it and is left scratching their head wondering 'is it me?' When the victim of this abuse eventually begins to develop awareness of the manipulation it gradually dawns on them that they have already been ostracized long before they anticipated and the people that they turn to for help have already been made to believe it's them who has issues - they've already been turned against the victim. The covert narcissist makes their partner feel like they are the one with the problem whilst projecting an innocent angel-like persona to everyone around them. They will make their partner look bad and completely destroy their reputation in order to protect their false sense of self. The narcissist has already attained the trust and belief of everyone around them and anyone close to their partner that they are likely to turn to for help. The partner feels like they are suffering alone, no-one around them can see what the cover narcissist is really up to.
Covert narcissists use cleverly hidden emotional blackmail, mental abuse and manipulative linguistic patterns to force their partner to question their own sanity, behaviours which people that know them would never ever dream of them even being capable of. They have everybody around them fooled by their pathological self whilst wearing down at the psyche and soul of their partner who, over time, becomes depressed, loses self-esteem and feels like their soul is being worn down until they eventually seemingly become devoid of emotion themselves - this then further backs up the narcissists claims that their partner is the one with the problem.
When arguing with a covert narcissist, a partner will usually be left at a dead-end. Their logic appears to be incompatible with that of the narcissist and they always get outwitted. The narcissist will go on to state how they took the parner into their life and 'saved' them when they needed it and make the partner feel that they are forever endebted to them. They make them believe that anything bad was all in their imagination and that they are paranoid.
Covert narcissists are the sort of people who have multiple partners, secret affairs (sometimes within the family) or even a complete secret life with someone else. They recruit friends and family who are fooled by the innocent persona they project to defend their false self by convincing them that their discovered secrets are just a result of paranoia or suspicion yet they will use special occasions such as valentines day or even funerals to get away with their infidelity, times when the victim least expects it.
Whenever the partner questions the abuse, lies or secrets that have been discovered then literally everything little details gets twisted back round on to them, they are then the one being accused of the abuse, lies and cheating. It's a plain and simple defense mechanism which offers no logic or information on the subject and has to be kept secret in order to uphold the covert narcissts's pathological self. Narcissists come up with one-line defense mechanisms rather than offering any logical explanation for their behaviour (it's all in your head, that didn't happen, I don't know what you're talking about, I never said that). Statements like these are an instant sign of fear and guilt and make it clear that they're not willing to even talk about it, they are not willing to take the risk of slipping up. However, in private the narcissist's attitude towards their partner will be 'either let me get away with it or get out of my life'. They make it clear that everything is about them whilst their partner's feelings, needs, wants and desires are completely disregarded and they will totally discard their partner in the process with no empathy whatsoever, seemingly being cold-hearted and sadistic. Anyone who knows about the covert narcissist's secret life is sure to be blackmailed or manipulated into keeping quiet, sometimes through proxy. Even when a narcissist does slip up, they claim that they have a communication problem and didn't mean to say it, they will deny their secrets until the day they die even if they've already been discovered.
It's important at this point to understand that the covert narcissist is also a sufferer. Although on some level they must be conscious of their abuse, mind-games and manipulation or they wouldn't hide it from everyone, it has become their way of getting through life and is deep-routed in their subconscious. However, they still know the difference between right and wrong and good and evil but deep down inside they just don't care - protecting their true (and self-denied) emotions is more important. The covert narcissist will make it clear to the person closest to them that they understand they have a problem, that they simply don't care and are not willing to do anything about it even if that means losing the people closest to them in their life. Narcissists have no empathy.
How Do I Recognize Narcissistic Abuse?
Covert narcissists can be extremely flirtacious in party settings, though they often use occassional shock tactics whilst any further promiscuity is kept under cover - they pretend that they were too drunk and not in control and blame it on the drink. They make further arrangements in private and keep their affairs secret in order to uphold their false self-image.
A covert narcissist tries to tie their primary source of narcissistic supply (their partner) down early on in the relationship. They suck up all the finances within the relationship, cut off their partner's contact with family and friends and damage or lose their partner's official forms of identification claiming it was an accident leaving them without money or proof of who they are. They manipulate them into a situation whereby they don't have the resources to leave the relationship or have any control.
Narcissistic ideology shines through the relationship solely to the narcissist's partner, they are usually the only person that recognizes the problem though are left with no escape route - when seeking help, family and friends accuse them of twisting around everything that the covert narcissist has already told them back on to them in the process of ostracizing their partner - it's a double-blind.
Covert narcissists attempt to make their partner believe that they have mental health issues and that they are insane, they will misbehave and tell their partner it was all in their head, they imagined it, it wasn't real. Tell them that you are not willing to be manipulated and they will tell you there's no relationship then. Of course, This is what everyone around them already believes, the narcissist has already built their army of support forcing the partner to question their own sanity.
What Problems Does Narcissistic Abuse Cause victims?
Ultimately victims of long-term covert narcissistic abuse can experience mild post-traumatic stress disorder - they experience nightmares and flashbacks subconsciouly piecing the parts of the puzzle together. This is the brain's way of healing itself and it can be decades before this realization happens. When this happens the partner usually begins to figure out just what has been happening all these years though they still have to suffer the consquences of the abuse alone - their friends and family still believe it's them that's the problem.
When the narcissistic person can see that their victim is tired and worn down and in a weak vulnerable state it offers a chance for more emotional and mental abuse and the narcissist will inevitably kick the victim while they're down. Narcissistic abuse feels cruel, cold-hearted and twisted for the victim. The most significant aspect of this disorder is that people in these type of relationships are twice as likely to suffer with stress-related medical problems such as depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder, heart attacks and strokes.
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Thanks for sharing. Wasn't aware of such a term "covert narcissist".
Very informative article, thank you, you really have done your research. So much is written about the Overt Narcissist, but little about the Covert Narcissist. You would be surprised as to how few people are aware of this form of narcissism, even therapists. For that reason many families suffer without any form of support or help. And for those family members who end up going to therapy, they are often failed again, because their therapist may not be trained to recognise the symptoms of narcissistic abuse. This particular type of abuse is now recognized as a new syndrome that is coined Narcissistic Victim Syndrome.
I came through a childhood with such a sybling who created havoc with his narcissistic behavior and rages. I was probably his first victim. As he got older, his behavior became even more distructive. He made his family's life a misery, they were actually living in a hell that could only be described as a "war zone". The problem is, in order to survive, the victim enters into what is termed the "the narcissists dance". This is an unconscious defense mechanism which helps to keep the victim safe, but in so doing they almost loose themselves by placating, complying, and appeasing. This becomes part of their way of being, a great pleaser with everybody. Unless this unconscious dance is exposed in therapy, and the victim educated about narcissistic behavior, they are actually left vunerable to becoming Narcissistic Supply yet again. The reason is that they are conditioned (like Pavlov's dogs)in a way that makes them a a target for other hungry narcissists, who are always on the hunt for new supply, and are quick to spot those primed already.
The narcissistic epidemic has infiltrated into every aspect of modern life. The narcissistic personality traits can be found in every strata of society, with a marked shift especially amongst the normal population, and in the numbers of women presenting with narcissistic behaviours. For that reason it is vital that therapists educate and familiarize themselves with all that is involved in narcissistic behaviours so that they can recognize the destruction and long-term consequences that is inflicted on society at large.
i want my father to read this.this topic is a good one.
would a reader kindly forward this link to rkahn@kanekessler.com
thanx much.
excellent hub - will link to my hub on being disowned by narcissist "family"
Very good hub - need to read it a few times to fully understand, but I am understanding more each time I read it. This would be excellent for my sister to read. I will forward it to her. Thanks so much for all the work you put into creating this hub.
Interesting hub and discussion sparkster. Thanks.
this made me cry with such deep emotion, ive been ostracised and made to feel im so bad and crazy.
wow interesting reading. I am doing research on the motivations of counsellor - why they enter the profession and was struggling with narcissism as a reason, The covet narcissist fits the description very well. Thanks
I have been in a relationship and married to a person like this for 15 years. She has done to me exactly what is written here. What makes it even worse is she's a LCSW, (license clinical social worker). She is from a wealthy fanily, I am not. She has a great (free), education, I do not. Also when we met she was just 22 years old and I was 37, there is a 15 years age difference. That hasn't helped either. I am still struggling, trying to get the truth out. I have divorced her and have sole custdoy of my two daughters. However, I am still afraid of her, more for the lies she tells people about me, than the physcial abuse, and raging.
Dear Sir Camel.
Your describtion of your troublesome relationship made me a bit worried. First a bit about myself. I work as a family doctor (GP) in Scandinavia. My experiences from many consultations with suffering people have lead me into an interest in trying to find a pattern/system of understanding- that can help me help other people. The last 4-5 years I have read quite a bit about narcissism as a major cause of problems within relationships.
I take it you are living with your ex-wife now?
I would like to reflect upon some of the things that you wrote. It seems to me that you would like your ex-wife to really understand how you feel about your relationships. And that you would like to give collateral information to her therapist.
My experience with this is the following; a) if your ex-wife really wanted to understand you- you wouldn`t have been in this situation in the first place. People do not change unless they really want to do it themselves. b) Your ex-wife is consulting a colleague.. There may be nothing wrong with this therapist, but I don`t think her focus will be on you and your problems. Why? Your wife most probably hasn`t asked for that service. my experience is that people in general will seek understanding and support for Their view whenever visiting a therapist. Considering your wife`s previous behavior I think it would be a wise thing not to expect anything at all.
as I am writing this (in a bit broken English :-)), I can\t help thinking that these advices are just that, advices.I guess you`ve had quite a few of those..
But if I should really give you my best advice, it would be the following,
- what would you recommend your best friend if he or she told you the same story? Your recommendations probably also is correct for you.
- If you feel scared, nervous, jumpy, self-critical, uncertain and depressed- when you live with your ex-wife- OK; then you do that, emotions do not lie. Let them point you the right way away from your current situation. The really brave thing to do is to demand respect from her- if she doesn`t give that to you, find other people to be with.
- find a good therapist or a good friend, go searching until you find the right one
Good Luck!
Doctor abroad-
I can appreciate your concern. However, let me assuage your fears, if I may. What I can tell you; is very soon after my oldest daughter made accusations about things she says accrued during visitation at, “Mommy’s house”, I set up medical and psychological appointments for both girls. At this juncture my daughters have been in my, “sole custody” for 20 months. They have just had their second, “well check” doctor’s appointment, and third dental appointment. They are both in great health and their teeth are beautiful (perfect). I am a good father, and have also raised my oldest son as a single parent from age 26, months old.
As for my ex-wife and I living together, that isn’t quite accurate, yet. I have allowed her to move back into the house the girls and I were living in. We live some 140 miles away, in another house that I own. Visitations are spent together with the girls and me, at “Mommy’s” house. This way I don’t need to find a hotel or drive back only to return two days later. It also allows my ex-wife and I time to see if living together again is what we actually want. Lastly, it affords me one more PRICELESS benefit, I have piece of mind. Sending my daughters off to visitation was one of the most excruciatingly painful things I’ve ever had to do. Even though I certainly needed the break, however, it was no break worrying about them for the next 72, hours.
True, people don’t get help unless they want it. I will take it a step further and say; as with addicts, and I believe narcissists too, they don’t get help unless they hurt bad enough “hit bottom.” When my ex-wife left the house she was at that point. However, many people, mostly her family gave her everything she needed to set up, “shop” again, i.e. a late model Honda, dental work $1600.00, furniture, eating utensils, food, computer, scanner, fax,….She also spent at least a $1000.00, on new clothes. She got a new hair style she actually walked right by me and the children when we went to meet her at work for lunch. The woman I’ve always told how beautiful she was, the woman I’ve known for 15 years, who I could spot in Time Square at midnight! Not only did I not recognize her, it was as if she were a totally different person. Everything about her was “new”, different. It was actually very sad. It is as if the person I had known for years was gone! With that being said, although it may be difficult to achieve, even, “covert narcissist” I believe can “learn” how to be better and productive people, possibly even empathetic people. I view her therapy as being for herself, for the most part. If I receive any cathartic effects from her getting better (and I believe I will), that would be wonderful. I think her therapist wants her to focus on a few different areas one of those, is helping my ex-wife to understand why she had the affair, partly so she can tell me. However, I believe I already know why, she’s a “covert narcissist” and that’s their nature, put very, very, simply.
Like you, I’ve been interested in NPD, for sometime, and have read a number of books and countless articles on the “disorder” dating back to the late 1980’s. Recently I’ve delved into the subject looking for answers, possible treatments, and solutions. I am not speaking from a totally lay perspective. My ex-wife and I met when we were both social workers. She continued her education and acquired her LCSW licenseture. I am a QMHP (Qualified Mental Health Professional), and also a CADC-II (Certified Alcohol & Drug Counselor II).
I truly believe this person; the person I’ve known for 15, years, the mother of my two children is worth it. However, I don’t believe it should be at my daughters, and/or my expense. I know it is going to be challenging, but not only do I have a huge interest in seeing her get better and being successful. I truly believe that she has something very special and valuable to offer human kind. I believe she has yet to realize even a fraction of her potential.
The children are loved by many people, and are being taken very good care of.
Sir Camel
...who I could spot in Time Square at midnight on New Years Eve! That is.....:)
Having read your text I can clearly see that you and your children will have a good future, and hopefully your ex-wife, too. The way you have taken control of the family`s situation is very impressive. Your attitude towards your ex-wife also shows that you avoid contempt and wanting to punish her for what she has done to you. So many people ends up living av bitter life after the same experiences.
Thank you for sharing your story with me. Listen to your heart. All the best
Thank you for your seldom heard, yet kind and encouraging words. I will think of them on those rough days.
This is typically my wife. Everything I understand now.
My brother in law and I are the victims of two covert narcissistic sisters.
Only my brother in law and I recognize everything and nobody else understand.
Hard women to live with !! Escaping in not possible, because we both are men,
who love our children too much. The sisters probably choose us for this reason!
Very sneaky and manipulating women, who tied us up completely !!!
I can understand if children are involved, but I don't really understand why people stay with narcissistic partners. Obviously they fooled someone in to having feelings for them with a false front, but for me when you get to see the real character underneath and it's ugly or even twisted and evil, the attraction fades and dies pretty quickly. So when one person stops being attracted to another person surely that's when the relationship ends, I know it's usually more complicated than that but in essence isn't it that simple? I was attracted to a narcissistic women in the past and began to get close to her, and as soon as she started to reveal her 'true colours' I realized the way she was acting around me at the beginning was false and I got the hell out, because I'm sure like most people I don't find extremely negative character traits to be attractive in any way whatsoever. Anyway great articles on the subject and great comments, I empathize with you all entirely, my father has NPD and the years growing up unaware of this were very painful, by the time I was 15 years old I was taking drugs and suffering with depression with occasional suicidal thoughts. My Mother has Stockholm syndrome and would always think I had problems unrelated to the family (thanks to my Fathers whispering in her ear), and my sister has BPD and was almost as bad as my Father, so I was completely isolated and kept all the pain internalized where it festered as mental and emotional disease. It still fascinates me to watch my father operate, he's so damaged, there's almost a robot like quality, like he's not quite all there (even though he has an IQ of 142), he seems so calculated and cynical with his manipulation, but also seems completely unconscious at the same time if you get what I mean, because no one conscious or thoughtful could behave this way. I know I've been rambling but I just want to add one more thing, that is now my life is amazing (I'm 24 years old), because I was so messed up by this upbringing I had to study it all, go back and restructure everything. Using stuff like hypnosis, cellular memory release, mind control, psychology, consciousness frequency technology etc I healed all the pain and all the toxicity in my mind, body and soul, and I'm now far more happy and grounded than I ever would have been with a regular upbringing, plus I now have a good level of awareness of things that are never talked about such as emotional intelligence. That's what I feel about Narcissistic abuse, if you fully heal from it you end up becoming much more than you ever were before it took place, because you’re forced to address fundamental issues that effect all humans but are just greatly exaggerated in abusive situations. So in that regard I think Narcissistic abuse was just the 'necessary evil' I had to endure to fulfill my destiny as a human. Good luck to everyone, you have my admiration.
Sane man, you are completely right. You know, I am allready 23 years living with my wife, and I only found out 5 years ago that my wife is a covert narcist. She has an angel-like face and nobody would ever believe me. I am very sure that only the 5 years my wife was sometimes engaged in masochistic relations with some narcists. Denial of her masochistic character is outright by her !! I do not mind masochists, but why being so damned denying about it to me ? Outright denial is typically everything about my wife !!! But children from such a relation, I have to protect, because they are also my children !!! But here in Holland, there is also the problem that woman are protected in everything and allways the men are blamed. My wife is very pretty and has an angel-like face and besides as a real neurotic, she is a work-aholic !! Who will believe that my wife is a covert narcist, except me ?? Okay, only my brother in law !! But if there are no children and you are sure your friend is a narcist, you must leave her or him immediately !!
Mr Peter, that is the way they operate. My ex actually sits and tells the most outrageous lies and accuses me of things that in fact he has done. Their illness prevents them from admitting what they do. They are very exhausting people to be around and constantly claim that black is white. It is very difficult to deal with them in fact it is impossible and they never change. One is left absolutely stunned they are manipulative and tell endless lies, normal people cannot understand them.
To Sir Camal
Actually you are lucky that your brother in law understands and is on your side. I have been told that PN's covert or not never change, they can't. We waste endless years trying to understand them but we can never really understand as it is so completely foreign and distaseful to a normal person. They break our hearts endless times and then say they don't undestand why we can't live with them. Their parents can also have personality disorders and they have often had disturbed childhood's, no one knows if it is an inherited disorder or not. If you can find Atika posts, on Sam Vaknin, it might help you to understand more. Maybe she could drive your children back or maybe she could see them just one day in a hotel near you and drive herself there and back. If you let her stay be careful, I narrowly avoided several 'domestic accidents' which would have been fatal. It could be safer and healthier for everyone if she moves back out as the situation will cause so much tension and can exhaust you. Good luck.
In my opinion and experience if you want to remove a narcissist from your life you need to change your inner reality, because then and only then will your outer reality change to match. Changing your inner reality will take effort but if you're willing to put the effort in it can be easier than you'd think. I learnt through the psychology of emotions and beliefs that to a large extent we create our own reality by unconsciously projecting on to the world around us. We have repressed subconscious emotions that the mind and body want to release due to the fact that they inhibit good health when they stay trapped, and the mind/body will always naturally want to be in a state of good health. The only way to release repressed/subconscious emotions is to bring them into conscious awareness (something we've been taught to avoid all our lives). Once you do this and just allow the feelings and sensations of the emotion to be, they will eventually dissipate. Think about how quickly we burn through good feeling such as joy, ecstasy or laughter, because we give them our full conscious attention and allow and enjoy the bodily sensations, they pass quickly, we never try to choke these sorts of feelings down or avoid feeling them. Where as undesirable emotions such as pain, loneliness or fear seem to linger on much longer with us because we reject them, we try to push them away from our conscious awareness and avoid feeling them, resulting in them staying with us and eventually being pushed into the subconscious, where they affect us without our awareness. What's interesting is the way in which these subconscious emotions effect human behavior, you could write a book on this subject alone (and some have), and it would go a long way to explaining some of the insanities of the modern world. So the body/mind wants to be cleansed of these emotions, and in order to do this a person will be unconsciously drawn in to a situation that will give them the opportunity to project these feelings and therefore release them. So if you have a lot of rage repressed in your subconscious completely outside of your awareness, you may be unconsciously drawn in to an abusive relationship because this is the necessary situation that will bring your trapped emotion into your conscious awareness, ready to be released. The only problem with this is most people have no understanding of these psychological principles, so when the negative emotions arise they are re-suppressed due to a lack of understanding of how to deal with them in a healthy manner. And the cycle continues, the situation is manifested, the emotions come up, they are rejected and pushed back down, and we are drawn on to the next situation that will bring them up. People refer to this as ‘luck’, some people seem to just draw bad luck situations like a magnet (I know I used to). If you actually release the rage, you’ll stop being drawn in to situations that make you angry. I could go on and probably bore you to tears talking about this subject, but it’s the understanding that led me to heal the damage and walk away from a narcissistic abuser. I will post the name of the two books that explained all this to me in great detail at the bottom of this post, they were the books that opened my eyes and helped me change my situation, and I would highly recommend anyone who has been through narcissistic abuse to read them. Thanks for spreading awareness of this subject sparkster.
Memory In The Cells – Luis Diaz
Emotional Clearing – John Ruskan
Sir Camel, I read with interest your posts regarding your ex being in a "helping" profession. I'd like to read more about this. I'm involved with someone who is an MCSW and was an AODA therapist, as well. After only six months of intimate involvement, I was nearly destroyed. I am now seeing a therapist and psychiatrist, taking antidepressants, and planning my exodus from this maddening situation.
WHY do these people end up in the helping professions? Any insight into this from anyone?
Ok what I'm about to say is a touchy and unpleasant subject so if you don't want your stomach to turn please stop reading now. Does anybody know how common it is for men with NPD to molest their chilrden? Does it happen frequently? Is it just a regular part of this condition such as manipulating and telling lies? I ask because it appears my sister has boderline personality disorder, and whilst doing some research on this subject I read that it's not unusual for this condition to be caused by being molested as a child. I'm starting to fear that my Fathers abuse of her was not just physical and emotional. Sorry to ask such an unpleasant question but I need answers.
Unfortunately I have had to delete some comments, this is nothing personal against the person/s who originally posted the comments and I sincerely apologize for having to do so. It's just that the comments touched upon some sensitive areas.
I was married to a man like this for almost 20 years, am recently (and permanently) separated and suffering from PSTD like symptoms from his verbal/emotional abuse and manipulation. Though I knew something was wrong early in our marriage, I had not even heard of covert manipulation at that time and was too gullible and eager to believe his lies. I did not know PSTD like symptoms were a symptom of covert narcissistic abuse until I read it in your article.
As you described, he made me out to be the crazy one to family and friends - all under the concerned guise of a caring husband. He could demean me in front of the children and any attempt on my part to defend myself was immediately 'turned around' and successfully played to appear that I was the one that was being insensitive. When I was seriously ill, he successfully convinced my kids that the problem was ‘in my head’ and I was not as involved in their lives as much as I simply did not care about them. Meanwhile, he would tell me that the kids did not want to have anything to do with me.
To make matters worse, he has succeeded in turning oth my son and daughter against me and am constantly told that I was 'mean' to dad. When the kids were home, he would act the part of the caring husband, but when we were alone he would call me a f***ing bitch if I did not comply. Another trick he used when the was to say a hurtful or derogatory comment quietly so that only I could hear him, and then if I would react, raise his voice so our children could hear, lie and accuse me of not wanting to do things for the them, being unkind to him or tell me I was crazy.
My husband was also a 'mama's boy' and my mother-in-law as well as his siblings are propagating these lies as well. Like my ex, they are very skilled at dropping 'hints' or making a seemingly innocuous comment with a certain 'tone' in their voice to manipulate my children.
For years I was beginning to feel that I was loosing my mind. Only now that I am free of him do I realize how much of a con artist and manipulator he was and am beginning to heal. Thank you for the article.
Sparkster- I appreciate you responding to why some of my post have been removed. However, I am disapponited that you felt it necessary to, "delete" them non the less. Posting with screen names as well as posting anonymously are ways to insulate and protect our identities so people can feel free to be more open and candid than they may otherwise have been. The posts you and I exchanged were very helpful and somewhat cathartic in working through some very difficult times. Most therapist and clinicians haven't the slightest idea of the pernicion, and abusive nature of somebody who suffers from NPD, and how being involved with such people, even for a short peroid of time can cause major and possibly irreparable damage. I too apolgize for venting my frustrations, and meant no disrespect. The community of people here can ill afford to allow any misanthropy to invade our psyche, lest we become any semblance of the "people" who brought us together. I had hoped you and I somehow could have communicated on a more personal level; possibly e-mail.....just not sure how to exchange info. Take care, and stay strong my friend.
Sir Camel, thanks for your understanding and appreciation. If you wish to communicate with me on a more private level you can follow me on Twitter under the name Sparksterhubs.
Newdawn, I feel for you and your situation. It can be an extremely difficult and challenging task ending a relationship with somebody who suffers from NPD. Here are a few books that I've read that have helped me to understand and deal with ending my marriage to a narcissist; the book, "Surviving The Storm" by Richard Skerritt, this book was my marriage, and everything that happened after the devorce. It was very helpful in knowing what to expect and gave some, "strategies" in dealing with the devorce. I assume they will apply in ending a relationship as well. Also, the book, "The Betrayal Bond" it is about, "trauma bonding" and was very helpful in understanding things about myself, it is by, Patrick J. Carnes, PH.D. He is considered by many to be the, "guru" of psychology. I reread a book I had read many years ago, called, "Narcissism, Denial Of The True Self" by, Alexander Lowen, M.D. I hope these are helpful to you and your situation. I wish you all the luck in the world. Stay strong, Sir Camel
Covert narcissists are the worst, because they are very skilled at appearing "normal". From my observations the covert narcissists are people with NPD but are more aware of their insecurities, and are torn between the false aggrandizing self image and the false weak inferior self image. So they only abuse when they feel safe to do so or feel they can dominate or manipulate someone. If they feel threatened or weaker than someone they will act normal and pleasant or sometimes even nervous to their face, but then behind their back the character assassination and back stabbing takes place. It took me many years to realize a family member is a covert narcissist, because some of the time it would appear as though he really did care, and I think this is why some people struggle to let go, it’s too hard for them to admit that this person never cared and when they appeared as though they did it was only to solicit narcissistic supply. When I was a child my father was brutal and abusive, but when I became old enough to beat him up or out smart him mentally, he became a different person, he put on this horrible fake 'nicey nice' attitude and saved the abusive words for other people when talking about me. He knows if he tried to treat me like he did when I was a child, I would beat the shit out of him. I've made it clear to him without actually saying so that I know about the constant two faced back stabbing, and his behavior has been fascinating to observe. I tend not to talk to him, not as a passive aggressive thing but just because I can't even be bothered to make small talk. This has sent his world spinning, he acts incredibly nervous around me I think because he knows I don't buy into his false image, and he knows he can't control me. So the less I talk to him, the more paranoid, uncomfortable and threatened he becomes, and then he starts his pre emptive strikes against me with vicious lies and back stabbing. Then I would make him aware I heard his back stabbing by sneaking up on him whilst he was doing it, and he would become even more agitated, he wouldn't even be able to look me in the eye if he spoke to me, his eyes would just be darting around the room and I would just be stood there staring right at him holding eye contact as he squirmed in front of me. It reminds me of a child that has been caught stealing sweets, but the parent doesn’t punish or say anything about it, the child ends up punishing itself with guilt and wondering what the parent will do. I think that would be a cruel thing to do to a child, but in the context of the situation with my father, I think it’s acceptable because it wasn’t something I did intentionally, I just said nothing and observed. I guess when he was hitting me in the face when I was a child he never envisioned that one day I would turn in to a man who remains unshaken in the face of adversity. This is what amuses me though, I wouldn’t even have to do or say anything except for be silent and observe, and his behavior would just play out until he became a train wreck in front of me. So there would be absolutely no way he could blame me for what was happening to him because I didn’t do or say anything, there were no accusations he could turn around or deny, he was just left with his feelings. I sometimes wondered if he ever acknowledged to himself that his actions were wrong, but I don’t think these people are capable of logical introspection. The one positive thing that would happen though is that he would start acting very nice towards my mother, I believe out of fear that I would somehow expose his behavior to her, so if I told her about his horrible behavior it would conflict with her own experience of him. After clearing all the pain and resentment towards him, it became very easy to deal with my father, because I am no longer triggered by his behavior, I just feel calm, composed and detached in his presence, which means it’s very clear to us both who has the mental and emotional issues and who doesn’t. So if I’m relaxed and unshaken it is impossible for him to project on to me without making himself look irrational and foolish, something that we all know narcissists seek to avoid, so he is powerless against me. This feeling of powerlessness of course makes him feel very vulnerable and he will start to display very erratic and somewhat bizarre behavior, it’s like he starts to self destruct. Non reactionary detachment is like kryptonite to these people. I will admit it’s not easy to pull this off, I only manage it now because I used powerful mind control techniques in the form of guided meditation to reprogram myself. But now I no longer hate my father, and I can’t say I love him because I don’t, but I accept him for what he is, occasionally I just feel pity for him. Sometimes I’ll see a flash of fear or confusion across his face, and I’ll think to myself ‘Yeah, you’re just a scared little boy aren’t you, life is difficult for you’, and it makes me feel sad for him, because I know he will never try and help himself.
Thanks to The Watcher for providing such insight.
Sir Camel, I believe Hubpages has a facility that allows you to ask me a question, I would love for more people to use this as I can air my views without including my personal opinions/beliefs in my hubs.
I'd just like to let everyone know that you can now follow me at twitter.com/sparksterhubs and I have started my own blog at sparksterhubs.blogspot.com
Mine not only separated me from my family he has threatened to have me put in jail by planting drugs in my vehicle. He is well connected through his jobs and yes I said jobs. Sad part is my brother gave him the way to get away with it.
This article describes my husband so accurately it's scary!
thank you the wachter,
you have helped me mush more than you can imagine
thank you.
As you were raised by, and have the DNA of, someone with the Narcissistic Personality Disorder, you may well have noticed traits in yourself, especially perhaps the covert variety? (which I hadn't heard about until now... This may have driven you to learn all you can about it so as not to continue the pattern of abuse. Children of Narcissistic parents often go on to have many problems of their own; sometimes the victim becomes the victimizer and remains in total denial - and some become psychologists! (Joke).
Others may unwittingly attract a Narcissist as a spouse or lover to continue the subconscious desire to 'win over' the love of the emotionally unavailable parent/s. Its not uncommon to raise Narcissistic children so that the whole family is devoid of the real warmth of family love.
I expect you have fought many 'inner demons' yourself in order to stop the patterns of victim/abuser. Thanks for sharing your insights.
My personal belief is that this disorder has nothing to do with genes or DNA (which I am currently writing an article on).
For more insight please check out the latest post on my blog entitled 'Evolution, Religion, Genetics and Personality Disorders' at sparksterhubs.blogspot.com.
Hey Sparkster, you should check out Bruce Liptons work on epigenetics and his book 'The Biology of belief'. It would appear that out genetic heritage is much more maliable than scientist have previously realised.
The word "malign" accurately describes the effect of personality disorder on lives. Unfortunately, it also encourages the idea that PD sufferers are also "malign", that they are self-conscious, that behind the narcissistic "false self" there is another, conscious self, manipulating things. I appeal to readers of this blog, which has attracted thoughtful comments, to consider that there is no self-consciousness in NPD sufferers (whether of the "closet" or "overt" kind). The damaging thought-feeling-behaviour patterns are sub-consciously driven. In total they are geared towards maintaining self-esteem, getting external validation/love/admiration of a false-self-image. The false self emerges in response to unempathic parenting (usually a mum who has her own un-met narcissistic needs). Disordered individuals lack real self-esteem, lack self-love, which is the same thing as lacking authentic "self" - something virtually unimaginable if not directly experienced. Personal setbacks, contradicting the false-self-image of the NPD sufferer, may drive the individual to seek psychotherapy. It's only in the therapeutic environment that the individual can achieve (with great pain) self-awareness, i.e. awareness of the disorder.
Thanks for the comment Alistair, although I would have to say that covert or stealth narcissists do have some conscious sense of self-awareness which has become evident after many years of experience dealing with them.
If you were living a double life or cheating on your partner and lying to them would you not realize that it's morally wrong? Would you genuinely believe that your partner was the one with the problem? Would you not remember cheating on them?
Covert narcissists are aware of their traits but choose to repress them out of denial which is one of the main characteristics of the disorder.
Personally I think that saying they're not conscious or aware of themselves being narcissistic basically gives them an excuse to keep being like it and therefore is actually encouraging them to keep up their bad behaviour.
Hi Sparkster,
I'm sorry for the long reply, but here goes..
You are right to say that cheating on one's partner and maintaining a double life could not appear to an individual as anything other than wrong, whether they have a narcissistic personality disorder or not. (I would encourage anybody whose partner cheats to not tolerate the behaviour in any way. The same goes for any kind of "narcissistic" abuse - "passive-aggressive" or anything else - in a relationship. Don't put up with it!).
The denial and stress and tears and overall defensiveness, when challenged, reflects the anxiety induced when the N's false self-image is threatened.
(I would say that in "overt Ns, this image is typically of superiority or "greatness", in "covert" Ns, it is typically of perfection or saintliness. See V. Tonay at http://ic.ucsc.edu/~vktonay/psyc165summ/objectchar )
The intense anxiety is because there is nothing "behind" that self. If it goes, then there is nothing. For such a person, the false self has been a way of surviving childhood that has continued into adulthood. That self cannot be simply discarded, because no other (empathic) ways of relating are known.
You are right that CNs (and ONs) are aware of their traits. But the manner of speaking suggests the kind of awareness of a person who knows he is vain, or a perfectionist, or big-headed.
Thus, I would say, such a person, if he or she is an N, is aware of the traits of the false self.
But that, I would say, is very different to awareness that the self is a disordered or false self.
To put it another way, I am precisely saying that the N is unaware of the behaviours as narcissistic in the special sense of their being pathological.
Such self-awareness can only come through breakdown and psychotherapy.
I realise this sounds like I'm splitting hairs and I acknowledge that to highlight the lack of self-consciousness in Ns appears to "give them an excuse" to carry on or even encourages them to keep up their bad behaviour. I certainly don't intend this. But neither do i think it makes much sense to speak in those terms.
When I see a mum constantly using her children like objects to win admiration for herself, I might say to myself "Hm. Narcissistic abuse of the children". But I would be pretty sure that the mum feels, and would say, she is loving the children, and is precisely unconscious of the underlying compensation going on (i.e. her lack of self-love that compels her to derive others' admiration from things around her that she can say are "hers"). With that kind of lack of self awareness, the individual would not perceive some anonymous writing in a blog about narcissists' lack of self-consciousness as an "excuse" to continue the abusive behaviour. The N mum simply continues to "love" (pathologically). My point is that there is no conscious abuser there, but a person who thinks and believes her behaviour to be "normal".
My aim, in contributing to this blog, is to empower people in narcissistic or co-dependent relationships to not put up with abuse. Little children who are treated unempathically by parents can't not put up with it, they have to adapt to it in order to survive. The people who tolerate narcissistic abuse in a relationship, but stay in the relationship, must be getting some sort of compensation to make it worth while. Both partners, in this way, collaborate to maintain the status quo. (I'm saying that that's what goes on in co-dependency and other forms of damaging love relations. It might be asked here: to what extent would the abused partner of an N accept that he or she was self-consciously enabling the abuse?). If the abused partner has the strength to leave, or to challenge the abuse, that is a very powerful and potentially empowering act. (It might even bring about a change in the N). It is predictable, and understandable, that those who have been abused should demonise the abusers. But we should recognise that this reaction may itself be a form of denial of the part we have had to play in enabling (or, if you like, "excusing") the abuse.
I do not wish to excuse abuse, or let Ns off the hook. My aim is to shift the tone of discussion away from "good" and "bad" polarisation, towards a point of view that sees pathological narcissism as something that occurs in a thousand small ways (not just in violence and infidelity, though these are the extreme and horrible manifestations of abuse), and as a function of socialisation, in which we are all, to some degree, involved.
Thanks Alistair, you have provided a lot of insight into the underlying subconscious mechanisms that contribute towards the behaviours caused by this disorder and I don't think I could have put it any better.
It's difficult to explain in logical terms how deep-routed this disorder is without completely contradicting yourself which is simply another ingenius way that a narcissist can manipulate - you state one thing about them, then state completely the oppositte and even though both may be true to some extent you're the one who's left looking like the liar.
In terms of psychology the sub-conscious mind feeds the conscious mind and vice versa, it's the way the human mind works and it has to happen. However, in narcissists the sub-conscious has usually taken over and they go through life on 'auto-pilot' so to speak but this doesn't change the fact that all thoughts and behaviours must be held in a person's consciousness at some point in order to be processed or acted upon. Sure this may be pulled direct from the subsconscious without awareness but the mechanisms must have been planted in the subconscious in the first place via direct consciousness.
In terms of personal experience, my (covert) narcissistic partner made it clear that she is well aware of her traits although 99% of the time she displays denial which is one of the main characteristics of the disorder therefore denial of their traits and denial of awareness of their traits are inevitable. This is simple because they are so ashamed of them, deep down inside they know exactly what they are so they create a false angelic self-image that they can be proud of.
However, upon threatening to leave a narcissist they become so obsessed with upholding this self-image to others who haven't figured them out that they commonly admit and accept their flaws and claim 'I can change' seemingly and suddenly becoming consciously aware of their traits. They were aware all the time, they were just in denial.
Hi again.
You point to the complexity and frustration of communication in narcissistic relationships, how one is easily left feeling frustrated in the face of - denial, yes, but denial that is buried under layer upon layer of defensiveness. (Again, I'd emphasise that something is being defended against, but sub-consciously).
I agree, the dynamics of N relationships are maddening, but the pathology is not something to be attempted to describe or understand purely in terms of logic.
I agree with you that "at some point" the N is consciously aware of the thoughts and behaviours that constitute denial. But I think those points arise in the early life of the individual, at the moments of shock when the "authentic" self is not supported or accepted by the needed other (usually mum). That they "create a false angelic self-image" again suggests an adult consciousness at work doing the creating, but the reality is that the false self emerges at a time when consciousness is developing, and at least two people are involved in the creation: a child and his or her parent(s).
The course for a CN or ON in recovery (in therapy) is to start from the remaining conscious thoughts/acts and work backwards, recognise them as defensive, and then experience what is being defended against... that is if the N undergoes breakdown, and if the N enters therapy.
I found what I think is a very good essay on narcissitic pathology in relationships, at an everyday level, by McWilliams and Lependorf. For me it exemplifies the careful thought and introspection needed to penetrate this damaging way of relating.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissistica
I'd also recommend to readers of this blog a book by Alice Miller (who's mentioned in the above essay) called "The Drama of Being A Child".
I'm sorry you seem to be in an unhappy relationship, Sparkster.
I agree with a lot of what you say Alastair, but I often hear people allude that those with NPD aren't really self aware or conscious of what they are doing. After having had the unfortunate experience of being raised by someone with NPD I can tell you they are absolutely aware of what they are doing. Perhaps they don't know why they are doing it, but they are not automatons, they are sovereign beings just like everyone else. I think people sometimes want to think that the NPD has a lack of awareness due to the fact that their actions are so disturbed it seems impossible to think they could be consciously behaving this way. But to a large degree everyone’s behavior is built on subconscious patterns that create a false self, this doesn’t mean people are unaware of what they are doing and the consequences of their actions. The simple fact is if there wasn't a clear and conscious knowledge that the NPD behavior was in some way unacceptable, then they wouldn't try and hide behind an 'angelic persona', they would just display their behavior and not understand what the problem was. To say that their created false self is only something they conform to consciously as a survival mechanism, would mean that all the time they spend acting atrociously and against this image they would have to be in some sort of unconscious trance, where they were behaving like a drone on auto pilot and have no recollection of what they were doing. I suffered through a lot of physical, emotional and psychological abuse as a child, however almost all of this happened in secret and was saved for when no one was around. My father wanted narcissistic supply so would act like the good parent in front of people, obviously to garner support for his false image, but in these actions he has to be consciously aware that what he was doing to me was deeply inappropriate and would not align peoples view of him as a saintly figure. The very fact that they modulate their own behavior to gain narcissistic support of their grandiose false self image means they have to be aware of what people consider as grandiose, or saintly or perfect and what people consider as against these principles. In fact they are so obsessed with how people perceive them you would have to say they are hyper aware of their actions and behavior, because everything is calculated to a much higher degree when attempting to control or manipulate a situation. I would say they are hyper self conscious in terms of what they are doing. I’ve actually seen my father’s persona shift depending on who walks into the room whilst he’s mid conversation, such was his level of awareness at how he was being perceived. My first memory of him was when I asked if I could smell his deodorant he sprayed it in my face, getting it in my eye. He once hit me in the face because I was sat somewhere where he didn’t want me to be sitting. These were all conscious actions and are the sort of behavioral modalities that encourage people to demonize and call these people evil. But the fact is these were conscious actions with a clear and calculated outcome in mind, he wanted to intimidate and dominate me as a way of controlling me, which amongst it’s benefits would include giving him a masochistic sense of power. So why? And how is this possible to be a conscious behavior? I recently read a scientific study which helped to explain the rise of tolerance towards the atrocities in Nazi Germany. In this paper it showed that if a baby is violently struck the first time it cries, brain scans reveal that the structure in the brain that allows people to empathize will fail to develop properly and can be as much as 70% smaller than in people with healthy brain function. What this means is an adult who simply doesn’t care about others, doesn’t care about causing pain or suffering, doesn’t care about lying to people, doesn’t care about cynically manipulating people, because they don’t feel any empathy or have the ability to care about others, all that’s left is complete self preservation and self gain without any of the constraints that act as a fail-safe against this type of selfish behavior. Unfortunately for the Germans the leading author on parental management in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s advocated this treatment of children as he claimed that hitting the baby once straight away would stop it from crying in the future. 40 years later they have a nation full of people willing to commit crimes such as genocide, and they adopt belief systems such as being the superior master race, so we have a complete lack of empathy towards others and a superiority complex, just like the narcissist. The Nazi’s knew exactly what they were doing, they just didn’t care and saw a chance for massive gain, just like the narcissist. I would consider a narcissist to be one level below a psychopath, psychopaths are fully aware of what they are doing, but they are wired up differently so don’t feel the same way about the horrible things they do as healthy people do. So in my experience and opinion, it’s not that the narcissist isn’t fully aware that their false self is dysfunctional, it’s just that they don’t have the built in inhibitors that stop most people acting this way, such as empathy. They know what they are doing is wrong, they just don’t care because for them it doesn’t feel wrong, and therefore they only care about the benefits they can obtain by acting this way.
It's appalling, what you suffered, sane man.
I agree, there is a consciousness of transgressions, of boundaries crossed, of behaviours that are not acceptable, in those with narcissistic personality disorder. I know I am fortunate in not having suffered vindictive physical abuse as you have.
And I'm sure that what you write about the impact of violence on children, in terms of their lack of development of empathy, is true. (I'm sure you're aware of Alice Miller's account of Hitler as abuser and abused).
My struggle has been coming to terms with covert (or closet) narcissism in my mum, and a generally highly narcissistic family, in which humiliation and shame were visited on adults and children alike.
But the transgressive behaviours were (at least from my recollection) not obvious, but framed in ways that made them appear reasonable. This is why, I suppose, I focus so heavily on language and everyday pathology. Challenging the hurtful behaviour, which I did as an adult, involved personal breakdown. I know that I have a chance of overcoming disorder, but for my mum there will be no change.
My line of thought in all the above is that real self-awareness in a person with narcissist personality disorder is awareness that one has the disorder.
I maintain that such self-awareness can only come through breakdown and therapy. Of course no individual one suspects of having NPD (overt or covert) that hasn't achieved this degree of self-awareness is going to admit that they have the disorder. And clearly many who are disordered go through life never achieving it, that is, never facing the void and pain of loss of self that underlies this disfiguring mechanism for regulating self-esteem.
Pathological narcissism is compensation for lack of love, lack of real self-love. The proper response to it, after rage and anger and despair, is compassion.
Take care, sane man.
True Alastair, they will always make their behavior seem reasonable, they are masters of manipulation and deception to such a high degree. To them I don't think they see the world in terms of disordered behavior or being aware of it, life is just a game of survival and gain by any means, appearing saintly, being abusive, it's all the same to them, the truth and lies are just different methods of trying to obtain a desired outcome. So I believe they could become fully aware of their disorder, and still they wouldn't care or desire to change, because they don't feel their behavior is a problem or else they wouldn't do it in the first place. In fact I've heard of Narcissists using their personality disorder as an excuse when confronted about inappropriate behavior. When I first started doing self work and clearing all my repressed subconscious emotions from my childhood, sadly it was after I cleared away guilt that my relationship with my family changed. Because it was guilt, not love as I had previously thought, that kept me linked with them, guilt at what it meant to be a decent human being and a good son. Once the misplaced guilt was gone it became a lot easier to detach myself from them, because their child like behavior of not taking responsibility for their words and actions whilst expecting me to, suddenly didn't trigger anything inside me. So I no longer felt guilty about treating them how they deserved to be treated, and stopped catering to their child like irresponsible behavior. Actually I just found them irritating to be around. This did sadden me, but I guess you can't really love someone who has caused you so much pain, I think this is something to bear in mind, it's not love that keeps a person in an abusive relationship, it's something else, something specific to that relationship. You can very much heal from narcissistic parenting, but you absolutely must identify the subconscious patterns and beliefs you adopted from them as a child, or you will be destined to repeat and project dysfunctional behavior throughout your life. I think some form of breakdown is inevitable if prolonged contact with a narcissist is maintained, as long as the person is unaware that the narcissist has a disorder and instead thinks them to be a well person. I would also say not to get too caught up in trying to understand why they are how they are, from experience I can say you can almost get engulfed in this issue and then start to define yourself in terms of what happened to you, just accept they don't love you and focus on healing yourself so you can move on. I would absolutely recommend cutting off all contact with a narcissist, I know this difficult if there are children involved or whatever, but at least very limited and formal contact is the only way forward, because frankly, what’s the point in being around someone who’s just going to slap you in the face? I agree compassion is very important, and forgiveness, these are very disturbed individuals after all. In fact I find pity is the most common feeling I have for my father, probably the only time in my life I have experienced true pity, because there’s almost a feeling of looking down on him, but not in a judgmental way, more in a way that feels like complete sadness for what he is. Anyway there's so much good stuff in life, dealing with a narcissist is like stepping in shit, it's unpleasant but you don't have to walk around with it all day, just admit the shoes are a write off and buy a new pair, because the smell of shit will always always always be in the air if you keep them hanging around. Good luck.
I'd also quickly like to point out that despite common beliefs, there are many different types of narcissist (covert, inverted, somatic, cerebral, spoilt, etc) who display different tendencies caused by alternative variations in the spectrum of abuse.
One might as well add that everyone is narcissistic to some extent, which is simply to say that everyone is concerned with their self-esteem. (Indeed, the tendency of psychiatric diagnostics seems to be to "pathologise" everyone. This is explored in an interesting article by Darian Leader, which appeared in the UK Guardian newspaper last year, prompted by the publication of "DSM-V-TR". Click here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/2
I think also that the various narcissistic styles you mention, Sparkster, may all persist in people to varying degrees. Not every example of narcissistic disturbance (whether "covert" or otherwise) is a case of "malignancy", a term which has definite and restricted application in the most informed writing on self disorders (e.g. Kernberg). For this reason I think the title and opening remarks of this blog could, and should, be modified.
Yes, everyone is narcissistic to some degree as narcissism is a natural human trait which we need for survival - I make this clear in several of my hubs.
My title and introduction are also accurate, my title says in brackets 'malignant narcissism' the word 'malignant' indicating that the narcissitic traits are so strong that they severely affect the lifestyle of the sufferer and could therefore be deemed a personality disorder.
My first sentence also contains a link to my hub on NPD which states that narcissism becomes a personality disorder when it is so malignant that it affects the sufferer's personal life and relationships.
The main characteristic thing about my covert narcissistic wife is that she is completely self-centered, completely selfish, but always could hide this, even for me ! Yes, she has a double life the last 6 years. While at home she was always sexually cold to me (except in the very beginning of our relation), she is having anonymous sex with different men and couples. I like swinger-partys and should like to operate as a couple with my wife with other couples. She told me, she never was interested in this. Until I found out she is doing this all by her own. She is that terrible selfish that she has in fact no real relation with anyone. She is completely busy with her own lusts . I am not jalouse, because in fact she has only physical contact to other people, without any real intimacy. She uses herself as a kind of sexual object to others, without being emotionally involved. In fact she kicks on sexual humiliation, which looks very contradictionary to her very selfish charactar.
What I forgot to notice is that covert narcissists are indeed the living Zombies on this earth. Only it takes decades to find out that you are married to a Zombie and that she tried to Zombify you as well. And even their own children. I am so very terrified that one of my children will commit suicide after some years, because I see that my son is getting Zombified too. But relation-therapy does not help, because most psychologes are terrible fools and can't look in the soul of a covert narcissist. Okay, I admit it is terrible difficult, because they are extremely closed. Only terrible lyes will escape from theirs lips and once during one session with a psychologe, the psychologe wanted to send me to a psychiater. Nobody can help my family and I am that terrible afraid for my children. The covert narcissistic knows to fool the whole world and especially when they are that pretty as my wife, with her innocent angel-face. Only I know what is behind that very pretty face. She is really charming to anyone, but be careful. She will stab her knife in your back and secretly laugh, while seeing you starving !
"I'd also quickly like to point out that despite common beliefs, there are many different types of narcissist (covert, inverted, somatic, cerebral, spoilt, etc) who display different tendencies caused by alternative variations in the spectrum of abuse" - I agree with this, and also that to some degree most people have narcissistic like tendencies, although I believe they come from a very different place and are usually due to a subconscious fear of death, which triggers survival consciousness, and is not related to the desire for personal gain. I have a friend who has narcissistic qualities, but not to the degree of a personality disorder, and it saddens me because he's essentially a good guy but is very insecure, so hides behind a false bravado, his wounded ego's defence mechanism. But what I will say to Sparkster and Alistair is please don't waist your life being sucked in by a narcissists deception, they will make you believe they love you without a second thought. I've noticed that my father is terrified of losing my mother, because she is his main source of narcissistic supply. She owns two pet chickens and adores them, and I've witnessed my father kicking them like a football when he thinks no one is around, but when he's in front of her he is all super caring and coochy cooing them, and pretending he's concerned about there well being and will even come up with possible reasons and solutions for health problems they have (not mentioning that he's been kicking them up and down the garden). When I observe this, his deception is so convincing, if you didn't know what he'd done you'd never believe in a million years he could harm these chickens. It's just total cold hearted and ruthless manipulation for personal gain, please don't waist your time convincing yourself that deep down they do really care about you, they don't. Find someone who will show you the love and respect you deserve.
Sane man, you are completely right ! In the beginning of our relation I wanted to end the relation and I tried many times after. She did not want and I had to much pity for her to send her away. Instead, she wanted marry with me. Finally after 6 years of living together, I agreed. She was always a very hard working woman and not lazy. We got two children and some years after the birth of my second child, she secretly had sex with other man. I told her she had to stay with someone else, she had sex with ! She does not want. She wants sex with anonymous men and I think she already got anonymous sex addiction.
Thank You for this research and clear explainations. I've read Sam Vaknin's work in the past. I like how you laid out the info here.
A bit of confussion for me is the difference(?)between OVERT and COVERT Narci's. Can they be both or some degree of one or the other along with the main malfunction?
The person I was tangled up with for half my life ='o( exhibited both types; though was MOSTLY the Covert type--which was mainly noticable at home, in private with just me there. EGADS
He seldom went out with any friends, he seldom left the house (is disabled too), He didn't speak to neighbors unless pressed to do so, he tried to control the inside, the home and mostly had me doing the "step n fetch it" routine.
The OVERT side, if I should call it that, was when he felt well enough or balanced enough to pull it together He' go to meetings, attend His clubs, and became involved in (volunteer/unpaid) civic programs--He did pretty well at these. Metro Transit task forces where the disabled and elderly's bus riding issues were addressed, bus routes to places that seniors et al could access. His work was appreciated and "Positive", as far as I could tell; won awards and had many folks praising him. He was liked by most, as far as I can tell this way too. I watched people praise his work and his volunteer spirit of giving/helping for years and years. He did not become "close, chummy friends" with most, however, those tiny few that he did like being around KNEW not to just drop by the house; mostly he met them away from the home or tolerated a short visit with those few and infrequently. He didn't like "company" or any people coming to the home too often. If people did come, I could see him STRAIN to maintain a friendly upbeat attitude (dying for them to go home so he could "relax") He hated my adult kids and MY family and/or (very few by then), ladyfriends coming over. But in public, he was Mr. Golden Boy.
At home, IN PRIVATE, is where his Public Mask came off. He parked himself in from of his TV (and telephone) in the middle of house, had me bringing him things and reading things and writing things and working the bills and cleaning and errands ALL THE TIME; and gave me NO privacy. If he was in a bad mood or hurting, he acted out terribly but I NEVER knew on which day he'd be going nutso..some days he was calm...(recently I began taking pictures (for his doctor and shrink) of his bizarre behavior--when he found out, he was very ANGRY. He's also an UNtreated Bi Polar (OMG) so readers can "imagine" the hell I was stuck in for 30yrs. In last 3yrs the intensity of his bizarre (manipulating, paranoid, angry, overdosing, name calling) behavior had me reaching out for help--it didn't come, some came too late. I didn't KNOW the terms to use, such as ABUSSIVENESS, or EVEN THAT I was in an abussive relationship with this man and needed help, just spoke of his bizarre all night sometimes weird activities. No One Came--except to say I should find my own apt.?? Um, why not REMOVE HIM? I am painfully disabled now too (which also peeved the narci as now I cant stand up and cook and rush around for him anylonger)He isn't AS Mobility challenged as he lets on. He milks that condition for all it's worth. He's mostly a fraud. You know the type: The person that goes into court wearing a neckbrace after an accident to gain pity from the court in his favor, but his neck is just fine? Yes, well in this one's case He uses a POWER CHAIR for the same effect. Anyone who doesn't know him at home, personally, THINKS his whole world is bound to that chair. It's NOT, not at all.
I'm out of there but the legal wrangling continues.I will never be the same. I'm ruined at 62.
My abuser is a certifiable PSYCHOPATH--has all three of these: Narcissistic PD, Borderline PD, and Anti Social PD.
Thanks again for the article/hub. The thing that caught my eye first, in your piece, is the subject of UTTER self absorbtion by the Narci's. BINGO...I've NEVER seen any human being anywhere as self centered and cold, as this one I just escaped from.
Be well A
Thanks for the comment Aremelle, you raise some interesting points and seem a little dubious about what the problem actually is. My response is an in-depth one so I'm going to go back through what you said and I'll post here again when I'm done.
Thank You Sparkster for the review and consideration.
I know that he is a Psychopath but was "curious" about the two points you made regarding overt and covert NPD. I'd never heard it before..It's very interesting. I can use all the prof. information I can find to help build my case in court next month. >I< would ADORE to go on with my life, what's left and LEAVE him sink to the bottom of the ocean--IF HE would leave ME alone. He will not. It's a NIGHTMARE Sir.
Thank You, A
Aremelle, I can tell you from personal experience that my partner was covert, all forms of abuse would be hidden. However, whe she started having an affair with another family member the abuse, lies, mind-games and manipulation started becoming more and more overt and she would then use friends and family members around us who knew what was going on to help her get away with it. Eventually they all knew what was being done to me but she had them on her side.
Another difference between overt and covert is that she would also talk to neighbours, be really friendly and have them all fooled thinking she was really innocent and sweet. She would go out all the time and enjoy herself with our friends who she soon turned against me.
It's interesting how you say he never went our with friends and rarely left the house or spoke to strangers. These are usually the symptoms of someone who is being subject to narcissistic abuse because they don't know who's been turned against them, they don't know who they can trust. Narcissists expect their friends and family to protect their lies (that's what they are there for in their mind).
You also stated that he hated it when people came over and would seem uncomfortable until they left and he could relax. This is also unusual, narcissists like to have plenty of friends and family around them who they can manipulate or use to defend themselves. In a lot of cases the person being subject to the abuse feels uncomfortable when they are made to be around people who they know are 'in on it' or people that over-intrude on their lives (ie not just visit them but do it excessively and overstay their welcome).
You also state he's a fraud, the sort of person who goes into court wearing a neckbrace to gain sympathy (this is reminiscent of my own partner who uses illnesses, the fact she was abused as a child and other similar excuses to make people feel sorry for her). This seems more like sociopathic behaviour than anything else.
They are experts, you can try to catch them out, take them to court, try to record them. You won't win. For more information on this I recommend reading 'The Sociopath Next Door' by Martha Stout. It doesn't seem like he has all 3 personality disorders that you mentioned because Borderline PD and Narcissistic PD are characteristics that make up Antisocial PD anyway.
A narcissist is someone with no empathy that may not get involved in legal cases whereas a sociopath or someone with APD has no conscience and therefore no empathy anyway, malignant narcissism is similar but to a lesser extreme and generally legal implications don't usually come into it unless initiated by the victim of their abuse. Borderline PD is usually characterized by emotional and mental abuse and deliberate self-harm.
Thank You Sparkster;
Much appreciated. He is definately a "Sociopath", but they don't call them that much anymore, via my research, they use the term PSYCHOPATH and from what I've read they typically have a "measure" of each of those PD tendencies to qualify; tho' one of them is likely to be the Dominant trait. (Not all Psychopath's Murder people, btw)
If interested, See a couple publications: (1) "Meaning from Madness"..by Richard Skerritt: ?Understanding the hidden patterns that motivate Abusers; Narcissists, Borderlines, and Sociopaths"? et al. (2) Magazine: ?"Secrets of Your Brain"--Special Edition U.S.NEWS? Pages; 45-47 Very Interesting stuff in general.
I started to write out my entire history with this person; it's too long, too painful, too aggitating to me. Suffice it to say; I LOST HORRIFICALLY while trapped (with AND after leaving my own home) by this sick twist. I will never be the same.
Much good will and good luck to You and thank you for taking the time to share these things with me/us..
Be Well, Aremelle ~~
Yes, a sociopath and a psychopath have been merged into the diagnosis of Antisocial Personality Disorder. However, I don't feel that this name describes is accurately at all, it's quite misleading. Especially with the ASBOs (Anti Social Behaviour Order) being handed out in the UK to those that cause trouble in public, generally bored youths.
Greetings again Sparkster,
Got a notice in my email. TY. You know (blush) I didn't bother to notice where You originate from, yikes! I HAVE noticed the differences in criteria of diagnoses between US and UK.
My former son in law is a classic Narcissist; that why narcissim became an interest to me years ago. The BEAST I lived with was BORN the way he is. He is not a youth either; he is 63yrs old and has been a pain in the neck to everyone, I now realize, since a child. Pyro, rape, dishonorable discharges from military sent to Federal Prsion, In and out of state prisons, mental hospital I NOW FIND OUT..omg!!
This one is what we used to call: THE BAD SEED. His brain (the amygdala is my guess) is not functioning well...
He Mirrored, split, and Parroted and glommed onto others to SUCK THE LIFE out of them as in ?EMOTIONAL VAMPIRE?..He EXPLOITED people for personal gain over and over and throughout the years got MUCH SLICKER AT IT until today, folks downtown THINK he is just a cute, wonderful guy---------in a wheelchair. NOT.
He's dangerous and eventually he will work himself into a situation where he destroys himself........again. Woe unto the next female (or close friend) that finds herself/himself ensnared by that animal.
Beware the Public Glandhanders ala Ted Bundy who ran a suicide hotline, lets not forget..
Be Well and ty again ==?== A
Very interesting and insightful, I thought for a while I may be married to a narcissist but your article of covert narcissism hit it right on; it was as though you were writing about he and I.
It seems to be that covert narcissism is more frequent in former East-Europe and overt narcissism in West-Europe, I read. I think this is correct, because my wife is Polish and I am Dutch. I am not narcissistic, but my wife is a typically covert narcissist and she is totally the character as you described in your article.We are together for 23 years now.
Better standard of living in West-Europe seems to be not working with covert narcissists from East-Europe and I am convinced that they were much more happy under the old communistic regimes. Covert narcissists love "strong" leaders and men. People like good old Stalin. Not softies, like me. I like to talk about things and problems, but covered narcissists more prefer to obey orders from "strong men".
Yes, my wife has secret relations with other men and I find out all about those relations. Most strikingly is that those "strong" men humiliate her totally and treat her very sadistically. When I would slap her face once, she would immediately call the police. Those "strong" men can do anything to her. Stalin would be the right man for her.
For everyone who is interested in covert narcissism I recommend to buy the French movie " La belle du jour " to buy on DVD. Covert narcissism is also known as a typically female form of narcissism.
Is my husband a narcissist? he does not make friends, is very critical and negative yet can charm the pants of people with his humor, but rarely laughs at anyone else's jokes - even his kids ones! We have 3 boys 18,19,21(he is my 2nd husband, I have two children to my previous husband) and I have tried everything from when they were little to get him to show them affection, he never wanted to play with them, help with homework etc, i have taught all of them how to drive and I have spent the last 20 odd years arguing with him about how he was their role model and one day hey may be dads too but he never cared enough to even try, often saying if I don't like it "there's the door" if I got upset he'd tell me to "stop sooking" I can't ask anything of him as he gets annoyed, his father shook hands with the boys when they were toddlers-no affection- and his mother did not condone public displays of affection - all their family photos were in the spare room - none on display in the main rooms.His sister (older) was an A grade student but even though my husband is pretty intelligent he has done nothing with his life, I feel he was compared to her but really don't know because he's very defensive of his family and won't talk about it. he has been seeing a counsellor for a while(he had depression a couple of years ago) but I'm not sure what about as our relationship has deteriorated, he's not interested in doing anything with me and can be very lazy, I'm lonely and tired of being responsible for just about everything, he he doesn't care are how run down things getso in frustration I go and fix things (what I can anyway) He's been faithfull to me and a good worker but I'm tired and confused, sometimes I wonder if it's me that's the problem. I've told him I want to separate, he's agreed but I really don't think he thinks it will happen. Give me strength....
This describes my husband to a T. Been together for over 30 years. Don't know what to do. Financially - heading for bankruptcy (his third, second I've been taken through), on the verge of foreclosure, no source of income for myself. Am caring for a medically,physically disabled daughter and cannot work. (I can't leave her with him while I work as he won't care for her needs.) Worry at times about what he's capable of. Waiting for a parting of the Red Sea.
Can I divorce my wife or leave her ? It all will be to difficult and expensive. I am afraid she will make me totally bankrupt and she will blackmail me with the children. So I do not intend to divorce her. But I know she has secret affairs with other men, while at home she allways was and is frigide. I am certainly not an ugly man, but rather attractive. We can go to swingerclubs, but she does not want with me. She secretly does this with other men. Secrets, secrets and secrets !! I intented to do the same as she does and have affairs with other women. When she found out about this, she gives me the silent treatment. It is lasting allready for 4 months. I do not mind and I have nice love-affairs with other women. Okay, I am a family-man and in fact I do not like with what I am doing, but what else I can do ?
@Peter, usually the CN makes it impossible for you to do the same but clearly not in your situation. Behaving that way yourself gives your wife an easy opportunity to point the finger at you and lay the blame on you to all of her family and friends. Focus that energy on doing something about the relationship and getting out of there, at the end of the day divorce can wait until a more suitable time.
@Laine, your husband certainly displays many of the characteristics associated with this disorder. All I can suggest you do about it at the moment is read as much as you can and determnine for yourself. Maybe have a chat to your doctor or GP about it.
Wow! wonderful.
I finally got a job!!! I start tomorrow and it will go for 2 months. What a relief! What's funny - sort of - is that Friday I got rejected for one job and got hired for this one within a half hour of each other. I am so relieved and happy. MANY THANKS FOR YOUR HELP Dr.(gbocotemple@yahoo.com)!!! Especially for the extra time - very nice and very appreciated...
Hi There,
I'm Currently Doing-The-Rounds, around the Righteous Handful of Sites "Exposing" Moral-Imbeciles ....
Although, I've sadly been met by several "hypocritical" keyboard-hardmen "territorially" suffering from "delusions of grandeur" .... (You couldn't make it up ....)
Firstly, someone's attempted to drag Me backwards through The Mill, ie Of all People, a "Female" Malignant-Sociopath …. ie Ultimately it can lead to “P.T.S.D.” & self-doubt “etc” …. Shrink4Men is a Great Website for Those Who've also had run-ins with insanely-criminal Baby-Women "protected" by the Justice system ....
However, “CONGRATULATIONS” to Anyone Who's Survived a run-in with a Malignant "Narcissistic" Psychopath as it takes Great Strength of Mind & Character to "break-free," as it’s so hard to “Realise” that You were dating a 3-6 Year old hate-fuelled, Mentally-handicapped pathological liar …. Who, like any spoiled-brat, Can’t be “Expected” to take Adult’s Feelings into Consideration before moving onto Their next Toy …. (Bless Them …. LoL ….)
If it’s Any Consolation to Anyone Who's suffered such an experience :- Simply “Being” Them is FAR Greater punishment than Anything You could dream-up for Them …. Going No-Contact & Focussing on Your Safety & “TREATING” Yourself is The Best Advice I Could Give …. (If necessary, contact the Authorities FIRST & Persevere if initially poo-pooed, especially if You're Male ....)
eg The “uninitiated” in Society haven’t a “clue” about what would-be victims of such Emotional-criminals try to put Us through, until You Study the IDENTICAL Similarities between World-Leaders & the criminally-insane ….
If You’re “Still Producing” in Your Life then They’re losing "the game” ONLY They are Playing, so Congratulations on Being A Winner !!!! …. (sadly, They’re a born loser ….)
I was Targeted by a Very Rare Individual, Whom I’ve “Exposed” on My “off-shore” Server, (which gets past UK & US "Identity-Rights laws" ….)
To cut a Loooong story short, I’ve Studied Sociology & Psychopathology in Person for Years & as-with All My Thinking I formed All-My-Own Theories “without” Studying texts ….
After meeting a “Malignant” Sociopath, ie A Megalomaniacal Psychopath, (AKA a Malignant “Narcissistic” Psychopath) I Found Myself “Unifying” All My Previous Theories, when I came face to face with a “Female” serial-killer …. LUCKY ME !!!!
She kills through “relentless & ruthless” attempts at “ambient-abuse,” abuse by proxy, emotional-black-mail, death-threats “etc” & as I was to Discover, (“AFTER” Exposing Her & Her Cronies,) by perverting the course of “Justice” …. She does so for "sadistic PLEASURE" !!!! .... (You couldn't make it up ....)
I’d “Followed” The Teachings of Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa & Gandhi & I ASSURE You I Tried Everything, from a Safe Distance, to get through to Her …. However, She’s a 44 Year old with the Emotional age of a 3 Year old & the alloplastic-defences to go with it ….
She derives sadistic, (ie Infantile) Narcissistic “pleasure” from Unspeakable-cruelty & “imagines” Herself to be “clever” by Lying-Pathologically & can fool the Legal-system ….
She’s “addicted” to Her-Own Neuro-Chemistry & Adrenaline rushes & is “Psychotic” …. ie Her lies allow Her to program Her “bitter” Mind for the kill (ie “rush”) …. Her Brain doesn’t Eat Sugar across the Entire Front of Her Brain, due to a dysfunctional “uncinate fasciculus,” so She doesn’t Actually Exist in “Reality” !!!!
She’s Lead Me to Believe that 6 Men have committed “suicide” because of Her causing Them P.T.S.D. & for Those Who won’t Her Sister has then “shot” several of Them …. LUCKY ME !!!! .... (They’re a gruesome twosome & on-line Their aliases are interchangeable, so They double-team You ….)
At a Formative Age, the elder of the 2 smashed the Younger 1?s Forehead off the floor repeatedly until She Said She Genuinely Thought She was going to die …. ie The Final “ingredient” to Make a “psychotic” serial killer …. (She has the Exact same Physical Construct of Brain as the mass-murderers She admires ….)
I Saw-Through Her & Stood-Up to Her & Genuinely “Cared” about Her, as I Uber-Empathically “harrowingly” Saw in Her what She “Would” have been had She not been born with what She called a “broken brain” & had She not suffered on-top of That …. However, She Informed Me that Her EVERY Action was A Deliberately-Selfish & ENORMOUSLY premeditated “Choice” !!!!
I Knew It was The LAST time I’d EVER Do So :- So From My Safe-Distance, I MADE “Positive” Progress with Her Thinking, as regards Her “negative” Life-Choices …. Yet, after 6 Months of Reaching-Out to Her & Her’s, I Had to put the Plight of Her next would-be victim “First” ….
She’d hacked My Computer & had been sending Me “cryptic” Communiques …. I was Then Responding by Posting on MY “old” Facebook Profile ….
4 Months later, when I’d tried “Everything” to Reform Her & Said Goodbye Lovingly, for the UMPTEENTH time, etc, I then Realised by simply Walking away I was DOOMING Someone Else to a fate worse than death …. So after 2 more tries, I then Exposed Her Publically on My off-shore Server ….
She “THEN” had “Me” arrested & I’ve to appear in Court for the TERRIBLE CRIME of “Typing The TRUTH on MY Facebook Page” (ie Slander & breach of Confidence) which She’d “Doctored” from a Post I’d placed on My “old” Facebook profile from “4 Months” Earlier, having TYPED nothing about Her in 3 Months by that juncture ….
“I’d” actually phoned the Police 1 Month before She had, as She’d been in My House when I was out working for a Local Charity (I’d no Idea She’d made a copy of My Key) …. However, She lied “fearlessly” & pathologically to The Police & being “Female” played the Ted Bundy pity-card with the Gullible “Male” officers …. (She REALLY “Did a number” on Them ….)
Whereas, A Month “Earlier” when I’d had-enough & Called the Police & was HONEST :- Being Male, I was Told, by a Female police officer & I Quote, “We’ll wait until She kills Someone ‘Then’ We’ll arrest Her ….” :-
Here’s the off-shore expose’ which I BRAVELY “Predicted” could get Me arrested, 2 Days before I found Myself locked in a prison cell in Glasgow, in the Middle of the Night, whilst the Malignant Sociopath (& co) cackled in the distance, “delighting” in having perverted the justice system to “continue” trying to cause Me P.T.S.D. in the “vain” hope I’ll be the 7th Man to commit suicide because of Them ….
It’s been 7 Months & They continue to harass Me to This Very Day, even-though I COULDN’T have been More Forgiving, Understanding, Encouraging & Generous & So on …. However, They picked on the WRONG Man ….
http://176.56.228.41/vaultofguilt.html
My Website’s called www.christlike.be
I’m A Philanthropist, "Etc" & Do "Stand-Up" Comedy on Youtube about the effect of "Malignant" Psychologies on Society, which is often "misunderstood" by the "transparently puerile" with a con-veniently short concentration-span ....
I’ve been A Fearless Under-Cover Sociologist for 20 Years now …. I’m The Predators’ Predator, but I DON’T ADVISE Doing ANYTHING like What I’ve Done, as “Kindness” or “playing-possum” with a Predator puts Your Life at risk ….
Moreover, I HOPE The Following Phrase Helps Any “FEMALE OR MALE” Who’s been Subjected to the MORAL-IMBECILITY of a Malignant predator :- Jesus (Communist Philosopher & Lumberjack, to Me) Said in Mark 6, “Shake the dust from your feet, as you leave, as a testimony against Them & abandon those people to their ‘fate.’”
A BIG Thank You to Those Running These Sites !!!!
When You have A Run-In with Someone COMPLETELY Immoral, It's WORTH It, as It Restrengthens Your Boundaries on that "low" puerile-level & MORE Importantly Makes You Realise that Your “Vulnerabilities” ARE Your Strengths, because They’re Your FEELINGS & if Someone STABS 1 of Those LOVING Hands, We Reach Out to 1 Another, then WHAT MORE Evidence do You need that They inhumanely don’t Think You’re GOOD Enough for Them & ARE a "Sworn-Enemy," taking advantage of Your TRUSTING Nature's "Respectful" Innocence in Not SEEING Them as "Choosing" to be Lower than the lowest of the low ?!?!
Moral-imbecile
Some time ago I opt to live with a sexy girl in an isolated location. She was a overt narc. Everything went well for the first couple of days. Then she started to use my isolation and lack of not having a car against me. She also used money against me, she had just landed a good job. I was having problems sourcing money from my paypal and other accounts.
Things got really bad. She started to complain that my money was too slow and I had to bring more to the table. She had a veracious sexual appetite. So she started to break me down for a second.
However, what she did not know was that I had a escape plan. I have been dealing with narcs all my life.
1) I found out her behavior was influenced by a conflict she had with her mother at 16 and use it against her.
2) Had infiltrated her friends and preconditioned them to see me as the good guy before she started trashing me.
3) Occasionally hide her tools of narcissism like iPhone and credit cards. So there is no distractions when initiating counter-psychological techniques when she is in panic.
4)Find out any pharmaceuticals taken. She was taking a prescribed drug that has meth (most pills do)
4) Pretended to be in hurt, so that she would punish me with more money and sex.
5) Had an exit strategy, had a friend who lived down the road so that I could leave anytime, but I had to let her think I was trapped.
Basically she could not have had me. I was too experienced. I was also upset that she tried to exploit me when I had opened up. When she found out that I was not stranded and she was being played. She became very docile and subordinate. I then just exited.
Love your story, rasta!
I also love your story rasta1, you obviously had one major advantage having already learnt how to deal with the abuse. Knowledge is power.
That link in the comment is actually passing no-follow link link (some juice) to the taker. If you make the link by just making it to copy and paste would be better. I'll give them a shout right now.
I just noticed you got the props when I visited their site.
Many thanks rasta1. All sorted now.
Nice to know (sic) why I had the heart attack.
I'm curious to know if there is a high incidence of incest between NPD and their parent? I lived with a NPD for over four years and his elderly mother also resided in his home. It was subtle but it seemed to me that there was some underlining sexuality in their relationship. But as most victims of NPD I always questioned my own powers of observation and wondered if it was "just me". Thanks
Hi Pam,
Thanks for your comment. I have exactly the same curosities about the mother of my children - all the years I was with her she would portray the fact that she didn't like sex, she found it dirty and disgusting and was uncomfortable with it - yet I later found out that she was secretly sleeping with family members in the background. Her true sexuality was kept covert.
There is also a date that sticks out in my mind, from this date onwards my daughter has experienced night-terrors, nightmares and/or bad dreams. I beleive something happened around this time (which was years ago) and this problem still persists today. I have no evidence of anything happening, just suspicion and curiosity.
If anything has happened then I hope that this will come out in the future.
Wow, just the comments taught me stuff! Thanks for the great read, I did learn from this. Never thought of Covert Narcissism before.
Thanks for the comment Sandy,
I'm glad you learned from both this article and the comments - That means my hub is doing exactly what I intended it would do.
This is very interesting. I just found out tonight about NPD. Now it all makes sense about my very recent ex fiance. I couldn't ever explain why I couldn't talk to him anymore. Now I know why. I recently had a mental breakdown. My body and mind totally shutdown. I couldn't take it anymore. I was down for almost a month. Praise be to God my mind is sound again.
GmaGoldie Level 7 Commenter 2 years ago
Oh, I am writing on this topic - will be sure to link back! Excellent!